Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/07/1999 08:01 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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SENATE BILL NO. 8                                                                                                               
"An Act relating to the number of toilets in women's                                                                            
restrooms in certain facilities."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 8(STA)                                                                                                   
"An Act relating to the minimum plumbing fixtures                                                                               
required for females and males in the state plumbing                                                                            
code; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley explained SB 8 would amend the existing                                                                          
plumbing code in AS 18.60.705 to more closely resemble the                                                                      
national standard and increase the minimum number of                                                                            
women's and men's bathroom facilities in assembly places.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He noted that SB 8 would allow women to attend large public                                                                     
events in buildings constructed after January, 2000 without                                                                     
enduring the line they have inevitable had to face, thus                                                                        
unfairly impacting their enjoyment of the event they are                                                                        
attending.  Through the bill, the ratio of women's to men's                                                                     
facilities would be increased, bringing fairness to the                                                                         
situation.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The current statute adopts the entire most recent Uniform                                                                       
Building Code, except table A-29-A, which is an older                                                                           
version of the code that provides fewer plumbing facilities                                                                     
for women. The bill would also amend current statute and                                                                        
specifically address the number of facilities provided for                                                                      
men and women in "assembly places".  The current table in                                                                       
statute does provide a slightly elevated number of                                                                              
facilities for women in comparison to those provided for                                                                        
men, but the ratio does not meet the demand.  He stated                                                                         
that SB 8 would amend table A-29-A currently in statute                                                                         
relating to females and include Table 4.1 from the 1997                                                                         
Uniform Building Code for men.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley concluded that SB 8 would correct a                                                                              
situation that has plagued women since indoor events have                                                                       
been held in the State of Alaska.  He believed that it                                                                          
would be a step in the right direction and would give women                                                                     
the opportunity to enjoy the event they are attending                                                                           
rather than spending the majority of their time in line for                                                                     
the bathroom.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green asked if Senator Donley would consider using                                                                      
the numbers in the Uniform Building Code.  Senator Donley                                                                       
agreed that would be a better than the current number of                                                                        
the facilities, however, pointed out that the need is even                                                                      
greater.  He stated that within current code, at an event                                                                       
with over four hundred participants, the difference would                                                                       
be that in current Uniform Building Code would provide for                                                                      
twelve facilities, whereas, SB 8 would provide for sixteen.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson questioned Page 1, Line 6. "unless the                                                                       
department adopts by regulation a later edition of the                                                                          
following publication".  He suggested that a "later                                                                             
edition" might not include the intention of the bill.                                                                           
Senator Donley responded that he had been working with the                                                                      
Department on the legislation and never considered that the                                                                     
Department would go "backwards".  The Department does                                                                           
support increasing the number of the facilities.  The way                                                                       
the law is written provides that type of flexibility to                                                                         
either increase or decrease the number of facilities.  He                                                                       
reiterated that the Department is committed to increasing                                                                       
the facilities.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green recommended that the Department could adopt                                                                       
the Uniform Code or make the changes through statute.                                                                           
Senator Donley understood that the State had adopted only a                                                                     
portion of the code.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson asked for clarification of the exempted                                                                      
assembly areas.  Senator Donley said the older code                                                                             
required fewer facilities.  A drafting was necessary to                                                                         
place the older system within the new law and still                                                                             
maintain the simplicity desired by the public.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DWIGHT PERKINS, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Labor,                                                                       
explained that the 1997 plumbing code Table 4.1 was                                                                             
included.  [Copy on File].  Last year, the Labor and                                                                            
Commerce Committee changed the language by deleting table                                                                       
4.1. and inserting the A-29 Code.  That table is less                                                                           
complex and easier to use.  Any future codes being adopted                                                                      
by regulation would still remain in statute and that the                                                                        
Legislature would have authority to change it.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman asked about new construction, expansion and                                                                       
remodels.  He inquired if the new code would apply to                                                                           
increasing all facilities.  Mr. Perkins responded,                                                                              
providing two scenarios. If color schemes needed to be                                                                          
changed, there would be no increase in the number of                                                                            
restroom facilities.  However, if there were a change in                                                                        
the size of the assembly area, there would then have to be                                                                      
an increased number of facilities.  He advised that at                                                                          
present, the law addresses only the new facilities.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken commented that the proposed bill was                                                                             
different from the one presented in the State Affairs                                                                           
Committee.  He requested to receive testimony from an                                                                           
architect regarding the increased costs.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley commented that he had not seen any studies                                                                       
regarding that concern. From personal experience and feed                                                                       
back, he sensed that the addition of forty toilets to a new                                                                     
arena would not "make or break" costs.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken pointed out that the new law would add one                                                                       
hundred twenty-eight (128) toilets to a ten thousand-seat                                                                       
facility.  Senator Donley agreed that there were ways in                                                                        
which the matter could be resolved and that those options                                                                       
could be discussed later.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman commented, checking a quick calculation, it                                                                       
would cost approximately $500 thousand dollars more for the                                                                     
additional toilets.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green explained that she did not understand the                                                                         
need to establish a higher standard than the one                                                                                
established in the current building codes.  She noted that                                                                      
she would not support the bill as written.  She proposed an                                                                     
amendment which would adopt the Uniform Building Codes.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green MOVED to adopt Table 4.1 of the Uniform                                                                           
Building Code as a guideline for the number of water                                                                            
closets necessary per the number by occupancy.  Senator                                                                         
Donley OBJECTED.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley noted that the advantage would be lost with                                                                      
this simpler approach and that the motion would                                                                                 
significantly reduce the number of facilities provided.  He                                                                     
suggested a "better" alternative would be to modify Page 2,                                                                     
Line 16, to lower the standard.  He believed that action                                                                        
could modify having two additional water closets for each                                                                       
125 females.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green pointed out that for every four hundred                                                                           
women, presently, there are built eight water closets.  The                                                                     
bill would increase that number by six.  She questioned why                                                                     
Alaska was more unique than the rest of the states and                                                                          
needed to have more facilities.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman explained that he did not understand the                                                                          
proposed amendment.  He agreed that table 4.1 was not                                                                           
necessary and that A-29A should be kept in place.  Senator                                                                      
Green clarified that the intent of her motion was to adopt                                                                      
Table 4.1.  She pointed out that Table 4.1 had already been                                                                     
adopted regarding men's restroom concerns.  Therefore, she                                                                      
recommended that in order to make it consistent, Table 4.1                                                                      
should be adopted for both men and women.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley reiterated that he proposed reducing the                                                                         
numbers on Page 2, Line 16, as the alternative.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR:  Leman, P. Kelly, Green, Phillips                                                                                     
OPPOSED:  Donley, Torgerson, Parnell, Wilken, Adams                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (4-5).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley MOVED to adopt Amendment #2.  He explained                                                                       
on Page 2, Line 16, delete "two" and insert "one" and                                                                           
delete "125" and insert "100".                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken recommended that the Committee seek further                                                                      
help and assistance regarding the ramifications of the                                                                          
bill.  Senator Wilken and Senator Green OBJECTED to                                                                             
Amendment #2.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken calculated that in a five thousand-seat                                                                          
arena, eighty-two water closets would be added.  He noted                                                                       
that Amendment #2 would add forty-one more.  That would be                                                                      
a significant change.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion to adopt Amendment                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Torgerson, Parnell, Donley, Leman, Adams, P.                                                                          
Kelly, Phillips                                                                                                                 
OPPOSED:  Wilken, Green                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (7-2).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson questioned if the Department could                                                                           
answer technical questions of the Committee.  Mr. Perkins                                                                       
offered that the Department could have testimony available                                                                      
at a time specified.  Co-Chair Torgerson noted that the                                                                         
bill would be revisited at the evening meeting.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SB 8 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                

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